Comments on: Ireland Demands Replay With Honest-To-Goodness Precedent http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html World Cup South Africa 2010 Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:45:51 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Jamie Tosh http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575836 Jamie Tosh Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:27:54 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575836 For some weeks now we have been preparing to launch our ‘PledgeMySeat‘ campaign, designed to send over 94,700 new 4sport football boots to underprivileged African Children We have created a 2010 virtual stadium, based on the venue for the 2010 World Cup final and are encouraging fans, schools, clubs and businesses to buy virtual seats. For every seat pledged we will send over a pair of new 4sport football boots to one of our charity partners, enabling them to use the boots to engage with children from townships all over Africa, educating them in issues such as HIV prevention, Aids awareness and life skills such as self esteem and respect. Given the injustice of last Wednesday’s France versus Ireland result and the subsequent fury it has provoked, we have decided to help Irish fans put their own stamp on the World Cup and leave a lasting legacy. For every Irish fan who pledges a seat, we will print an Irish flag on the boots we send over, meaning that if the Irish fans and team won’t be in Africa in person, they will be there in spirit. Visit: www.kick4change.org/news/ Thanks For some weeks now we have been preparing to launch our ‘PledgeMySeat‘ campaign, designed to send over 94,700 new 4sport football boots to underprivileged African Children

We have created a 2010 virtual stadium, based on the venue for the 2010 World Cup final and are encouraging fans, schools, clubs and businesses to buy virtual seats.

For every seat pledged we will send over a pair of new 4sport football boots to one of our charity partners, enabling them to use the boots to engage with children from townships all over Africa, educating them in issues such as HIV prevention, Aids awareness and life skills such as self esteem and respect.

Given the injustice of last Wednesday’s France versus Ireland result and the subsequent fury it has provoked, we have decided to help Irish fans put their own stamp on the World Cup and leave a lasting legacy. For every Irish fan who pledges a seat, we will print an Irish flag on the boots we send over, meaning that if the Irish fans and team won’t be in Africa in person, they will be there in spirit.

Visit: http://www.kick4change.org/news/

Thanks

]]> By: Tony Ellis http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575774 Tony Ellis Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:39:42 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575774 Hi,Guys, Ive heard all sides of this argument about henry and the hanball incident I even watched it myself : over 30 million other people worldwide witnessed it too Henry himself admitted it : If something is done wrong and you get found out you are punished: This is whether you own up yourself or are caught ..same diference. Because Henry was Representing His National Side He is more culpable: He alone but representing a Nation caused a breach of ethics that is going to have reverberating hardships for others: In my opinion :: and its only an opinion there are only 1 of 2 options open to FIFA/FFF and the like: 1: Let FRANCE forfeit the Match and walk away and Let Ireland in because of the breach of ethics....FIFA has said it would be too much trouble to arrange another match : this way they dont have to...Cheaters punished and No change in amount of teams: 2 : Platini & Co to dig into their rich pockets and reimburse ALL of the Fans who turned up to see a World Cup play off that was a Farce: No body should be expected to PAY for this shambles: There is of course another way : Sue FIFA/FFF & Others if their is a Lawyer out there who would have the Bottle to take the job on...Im sure that dedicated fans of our sport of SOCCER would more than willingly help to pay for a chance to make FIFA etc pay for this and all of the unethical things they have done now and in the past Hi,Guys,

Ive heard all sides of this argument about henry and the hanball incident
I even watched it myself :
over 30 million other people worldwide witnessed it too
Henry himself admitted it :

If something is done wrong and you get found out you are punished:

This is whether you own up yourself or are caught ..same diference.

Because Henry was Representing His National Side He is more culpable:

He alone but representing a Nation caused a breach of ethics that is going to have reverberating hardships for others:

In my opinion :: and its only an opinion there are only 1 of 2 options
open to FIFA/FFF and the like:

1: Let FRANCE forfeit the Match and walk away and Let Ireland in because of the breach of ethics….FIFA has said it would be too much trouble to arrange another match : this way they dont have to…Cheaters punished
and No change in amount of teams:

2 : Platini & Co to dig into their rich pockets and reimburse ALL of the
Fans who turned up to see a World Cup play off that was a Farce:
No body should be expected to PAY for this shambles:

There is of course another way :

Sue FIFA/FFF & Others if their is a Lawyer out there who would have the Bottle to take the job on…Im sure that dedicated fans of our sport of SOCCER would more than willingly help to pay for a chance to make FIFA etc
pay for this and all of the unethical things they have done now and in the past

]]> By: Cece http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575727 Cece Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:09:19 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575727 Kxevin, asserting that both teams played poorly is a shell game, and it's also not the issue at hand. There are rules, which are called laws even, Henry (deliberately) broke them, and then got away with it, and that's wrong. By your argument, Ireland should get over this because they didn't make better use of the chances they had. One, I don't understand how that's the same thing as a handball from offside. Two, this is football, since when does the shots on goal/goal ratio dictate that the team should be blamed when there's terrible refereeing? Football has been filled with spilled/foiled chances since it's invention. That's the game. I don't see how this is an offense, let alone a consolation for Henry's actions. I don't hate Henry, I understand why he did it, but he's wrong, and something should be done about it. The problem it's looking like once again nothing will be. Kxevin, asserting that both teams played poorly is a shell game, and it’s also not the issue at hand. There are rules, which are called laws even, Henry (deliberately) broke them, and then got away with it, and that’s wrong. By your argument, Ireland should get over this because they didn’t make better use of the chances they had. One, I don’t understand how that’s the same thing as a handball from offside. Two, this is football, since when does the shots on goal/goal ratio dictate that the team should be blamed when there’s terrible refereeing? Football has been filled with spilled/foiled chances since it’s invention. That’s the game. I don’t see how this is an offense, let alone a consolation for Henry’s actions.
I don’t hate Henry, I understand why he did it, but he’s wrong, and something should be done about it. The problem it’s looking like once again nothing will be.

]]> By: Ryan McManus http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575715 Ryan McManus Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:39:16 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575715 Yes sandrahn it's true that the Irish are enraged about this particular incident because it happened. And that another nation would do the same thing if something similar happened to them. I'm still missing your point though. It seems as if you are still arguing that because you think that actually doing something about these incidents is unfair to their past victims. If that's how you feel then you are just being bitter and non-progressive. The point here is to prevent vital mistakes like these from occuring in the future, not to whine about the past. So far you have only stated the obvious and also acted like a victim of Francophobia. Also, in the link you just posted, Keane's handball is not exactly the same. It's not clear whether it is intentional and Henry's certainly is in the most blantant manner. Also, there was no way that Keane could have known that he was about to get an absurd penalty decision when he handled the ball. Henry knew that by handling the ball that France could score and win the match to qualify, whereas Keane was just trapping a speculative forward ball, not even actually trying to win a penalty. Secondly, there's a big difference between a wrong call and a non-call. That incident was clearly due to the stupidity and utter incompetence of the referees. He and his linesman had a clear view of the incident and made a ridiculous decision that Ireland was not playing for. On the other hand, Mr. Henry was quite clearly trying to deceive the referee in an attempt to cheat France's way into the WC. The non-call from the referee and ensuing goal was exactly what Henry's handball was meant to achieve. In this case the referee made the wrong decision because he and his linesman obviously did not see the incident. That is why something akin to video review must be done now to prevent further cheating. It's quite impossible for us to account for the stupidity of some referees as demonstrated by your example, but we could certainly do a lot more to make sure the referee makes the most informed decision possible. I'm sure the Irish would feel at least somewhat better about this whole thing if FIFA decided to implement such a policy even if it didn't have any effect on the outcome of the qualifier. Yes sandrahn it’s true that the Irish are enraged about this particular incident because it happened. And that another nation would do the same thing if something similar happened to them. I’m still missing your point though. It seems as if you are still arguing that because you think that actually doing something about these incidents is unfair to their past victims. If that’s how you feel then you are just being bitter and non-progressive. The point here is to prevent vital mistakes like these from occuring in the future, not to whine about the past. So far you have only stated the obvious and also acted like a victim of Francophobia. Also, in the link you just posted, Keane’s handball is not exactly the same. It’s not clear whether it is intentional and Henry’s certainly is in the most blantant manner. Also, there was no way that Keane could have known that he was about to get an absurd penalty decision when he handled the ball. Henry knew that by handling the ball that France could score and win the match to qualify, whereas Keane was just trapping a speculative forward ball, not even actually trying to win a penalty. Secondly, there’s a big difference between a wrong call and a non-call. That incident was clearly due to the stupidity and utter incompetence of the referees. He and his linesman had a clear view of the incident and made a ridiculous decision that Ireland was not playing for. On the other hand, Mr. Henry was quite clearly trying to deceive the referee in an attempt to cheat France’s way into the WC. The non-call from the referee and ensuing goal was exactly what Henry’s handball was meant to achieve. In this case the referee made the wrong decision because he and his linesman obviously did not see the incident. That is why something akin to video review must be done now to prevent further cheating. It’s quite impossible for us to account for the stupidity of some referees as demonstrated by your example, but we could certainly do a lot more to make sure the referee makes the most informed decision possible. I’m sure the Irish would feel at least somewhat better about this whole thing if FIFA decided to implement such a policy even if it didn’t have any effect on the outcome of the qualifier.

]]> By: Kxevin http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575703 Kxevin Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:15:51 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575703 CeCe, perhaps you don't "get it" because you don't understand what I have written. It isn't a defense. It's perspective. Both sides did have chances to put the match away. Both sides screwed the pooch. The ref missed the call. Henry played to the whistle, as any other player would. He has fessed up to the incident, and even come out in favor of a replay as the "fairest solution." Not sure what more he can do aside from tattooing an Ireland flag on his backside and agreeing never to play the game again. The problem is that the view of the matter will depend upon what side of the fence you're on. To some, it was deliberate act committed by just another arrogant, cheating Frog. To others, it was a player playing to the whistle, no different from when a player who is clearly offside keeps running at the goal until he hears the whistle. Cheating? Hardly. Stupid? Yep. Regrettable? Extremely. Even Henry says he wishes that it hadn't happened that way. CeCe, perhaps you don’t “get it” because you don’t understand what I have written. It isn’t a defense. It’s perspective. Both sides did have chances to put the match away. Both sides screwed the pooch. The ref missed the call. Henry played to the whistle, as any other player would.

He has fessed up to the incident, and even come out in favor of a replay as the “fairest solution.” Not sure what more he can do aside from tattooing an Ireland flag on his backside and agreeing never to play the game again.

The problem is that the view of the matter will depend upon what side of the fence you’re on. To some, it was deliberate act committed by just another arrogant, cheating Frog. To others, it was a player playing to the whistle, no different from when a player who is clearly offside keeps running at the goal until he hears the whistle.

Cheating? Hardly. Stupid? Yep. Regrettable? Extremely. Even Henry says he wishes that it hadn’t happened that way.

]]> By: sandrahn http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575692 sandrahn Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:41:39 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575692 Excellent commentary here: http://arsenal.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=516781 Excerpt: "The FAI this week begged and pleaded with FIFA to 'uphold the integrity of the game' by giving them a replay. Strangely enough, when Ireland beat Georgia at Croke Park earlier in the Qualifying campaign courtesy of some incorrect officiating, I don`t recall them offering Georgia a replay. When Damien Duff dived for a penalty in the 2002 World Cup I`m not sure I recall the same media or FAI uproar. I`m also not sure why the FAI have demanded Thierry Henry apologise for his handball on Wednesday night, yet have somehow not asked Robbie Keane to do likewise- Keane, you will remember was twice penalised for deliberate handball in the match. Is it only intent to cheat when you get away with it?" If Ireland are so pure and morally superior to France, then why didn't the FAI offer to replay their game v. Georgia? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9fx4ipF4Q Keane deliberately catches the ball with his hand and somehow gets a penalty. This is all about hypocritical, selective moral outrage. When it's done to "us" then it's just cheating, immoral and the perpetrators should stand up, own up to it, tell the referee and agree to a reply. When we do it to "them," well, it's just one of those things. Excellent commentary here:

http://arsenal.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=516781

Excerpt: “The FAI this week begged and pleaded with FIFA to ‘uphold the integrity of the game’ by giving them a replay. Strangely enough, when Ireland beat Georgia at Croke Park earlier in the Qualifying campaign courtesy of some incorrect officiating, I don`t recall them offering Georgia a replay. When Damien Duff dived for a penalty in the 2002 World Cup I`m not sure I recall the same media or FAI uproar. I`m also not sure why the FAI have demanded Thierry Henry apologise for his handball on Wednesday night, yet have somehow not asked Robbie Keane to do likewise- Keane, you will remember was twice penalised for deliberate handball in the match. Is it only intent to cheat when you get away with it?”

If Ireland are so pure and morally superior to France, then why didn’t the FAI offer to replay their game v. Georgia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9fx4ipF4Q

Keane deliberately catches the ball with his hand and somehow gets a penalty.

This is all about hypocritical, selective moral outrage. When it’s done to “us” then it’s just cheating, immoral and the perpetrators should stand up, own up to it, tell the referee and agree to a reply.

When we do it to “them,” well, it’s just one of those things.

]]> By: CeCe http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575672 CeCe Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:21:43 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575672 Kxevin, youre trying to defend the indefensible. I don't get it. Alfred Lord..., if the television audience has time to see the goal celebration, multiple replays of the goal from different angles, fan reactions in the stadium, reactions from both coaches, and even a brief replay of the goal celebration, all before play has formally resumed (or with the audience missing mere seconds of resumed play,) somebody on the field can be examining an instant replay without severe time delays. Too many silly comparisons get made between American football and Association football. Mostly made by people who don't like the US, these being the very same people who cry and squeal when their team gets cheated to no avail. American football and Association football don't have anything to do with each other. Therefore, holding on to current policies doesn't make you a stronger Anti-American, it just makes you in favor of corruption. Just in general, at first I never understand why Brazil and Italy automatically get hated on whenever debate springs up in international soccer that had absolutely nothing to do with them. Then I remember that Brazil has five world cups and Italy has four. Stay on your job, haters. Kxevin, youre trying to defend the indefensible. I don’t get it.
Alfred Lord…, if the television audience has time to see the goal celebration, multiple replays of the goal from different angles, fan reactions in the stadium, reactions from both coaches, and even a brief replay of the goal celebration, all before play has formally resumed (or with the audience missing mere seconds of resumed play,) somebody on the field can be examining an instant replay without severe time delays.
Too many silly comparisons get made between American football and Association football. Mostly made by people who don’t like the US, these being the very same people who cry and squeal when their team gets cheated to no avail. American football and Association football don’t have anything to do with each other. Therefore, holding on to current policies doesn’t make you a stronger Anti-American, it just makes you in favor of corruption.

Just in general, at first I never understand why Brazil and Italy automatically get hated on whenever debate springs up in international soccer that had absolutely nothing to do with them. Then I remember that Brazil has five world cups and Italy has four. Stay on your job, haters.

]]> By: Alfred Lord Rivelino http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575656 Alfred Lord Rivelino Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:02:09 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575656 Video replay....just what the grubby-fingered U.S. advertisers want. 10 years from now we'll also have the 15 minute mark water break brought to you by your local Chevy dealer. At 30 minutes, they'll stop so two kids sponsored by Dell Computers can race each other to a goalpost to win a new 2-inch laptop. Don't slow down the game just because the NFL produces 7 to 12 minutes of actual "ball in play" during 3.3 hours. England of all people should be thankful their 3rd goal "went in" in 1966. As for Ireland, the approach to the beaches of Normandy are now largely unguarded. On to the Bastille and the Stade de Fraud. Video replay….just what the grubby-fingered U.S. advertisers want. 10 years from now we’ll also have the 15 minute mark water break brought to you by your local Chevy dealer. At 30 minutes, they’ll stop so two kids sponsored by Dell Computers can race each other to a goalpost to win a new 2-inch laptop.

Don’t slow down the game just because the NFL produces 7 to 12 minutes of actual “ball in play” during 3.3 hours. England of all people should be thankful their 3rd goal “went in” in 1966. As for Ireland, the approach to the beaches of Normandy are now largely unguarded. On to the Bastille and the Stade de Fraud.

]]> By: Alfred Lord Rivelino http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575654 Alfred Lord Rivelino Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:52:49 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575654 While soccer is the best sport, it's still just a game. It's a variant of the Roman circus. Occasionally Emperor Blatter has to turn away from the senators and pay heed to the mob...and we the mob want a replay. The difference between a technical mistake and a missed call is minimized by the human element (referee and players). The technical mistake is the result of a control/alt/delete moment when the referee temporarily forgets the pertinent rule (or maybe never studied it). He is human. A missed call might happen because the referee does not have 10 gopher cams to simultaneously feed him or her information. Or it might happen because the referee just happened to have a random thought about his new girlfriend which temporarily disconnected his optic nerve. Just like in the law where a precedent exists for just about any position, Emperor Blatter need only reach into his bag of tricks titled "Fifa Fair Play and For the Good of the Game" and pull out a re-match. While soccer is the best sport, it’s still just a game. It’s a variant of the Roman circus. Occasionally Emperor Blatter has to turn away from the senators and pay heed to the mob…and we the mob want a replay.
The difference between a technical mistake and a missed call is minimized by the human element (referee and players). The technical mistake is the result of a control/alt/delete moment when the referee temporarily forgets the pertinent rule (or maybe never studied it). He is human. A missed call might happen because the referee does not have 10 gopher cams to simultaneously feed him or her information. Or it might happen because the referee just happened to have a random thought about his new girlfriend which temporarily disconnected his optic nerve. Just like in the law where a precedent exists for just about any position, Emperor Blatter need only reach into his bag of tricks titled “Fifa Fair Play and For the Good of the Game” and pull out a re-match.

]]> By: Erin in Alaska http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html/comment-page-2#comment-575648 Erin in Alaska Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:36:50 +0000 http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html#comment-575648 Rui (on November 19, 1702) makes the best points here. A replay can't be awarded here. I WANT a replay awarded, but it CAN NOT happen. The precedent it would set would be longer than the outcome of the US 2000 election. RoIreland got robbed twice by FIFA (in seeding and this) and that's how it is for now. Until replay of "disputed goals" is instituted, soccer will be a nothing sport in the largest sport market in the world. And the fact that diving by pussy-ass Italians, Spainiards, and Ronaldos (why not add Terry and Lampard ;) is still tolerated, to a large extent (magic foot-spray ftw!) Rui (on November 19, 1702) makes the best points here. A replay can’t be awarded here. I WANT a replay awarded, but it CAN NOT happen. The precedent it would set would be longer than the outcome of the US 2000 election. RoIreland got robbed twice by FIFA (in seeding and this) and that’s how it is for now. Until replay of “disputed goals” is instituted, soccer will be a nothing sport in the largest sport market in the world. And the fact that diving by pussy-ass Italians, Spainiards, and Ronaldos (why not add Terry and Lampard ;) is still tolerated, to a large extent (magic foot-spray ftw!)

]]>