How Long Until We Forgive Thierry Henry?

I am not. The reason being if Titi truly was sorry about France getting the goal in that fashion, he would have stopped playing the minute he handled the ball. To me, players who do handle the ball (accidentally or otherwise) and continue playing as if it never happened, are doing the same thing divers do and attempt to deceive officials. Maybe I’m just too much of a goody-goody-two-shoes, but whenever I handle the ball while playing, I don’t then cross it to another player, I stop playing and admit I did. Then again. that might also be the reason I am not on the US Nation Team…

Oh, so you would have stopped immediately Ryan? In extra time, when you’re setting up a goal to get your country to the World Cup? Really? Ever found a $5 bill on the ground and gone directly to the police to report it as missing?

I cannot STAND everyone being holier than thou and saying they would have done something totally different. It’s so absurd that it barely deserves an argument.

Stop blaming Henry, it’s the ref’s fault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZE7h5gyto

The furor surrounding Henry’s handball is utterly ridiculous. It wasn’t cheating, it was perfectly within the rules of the game because the bloody ref didn’t see it. And it’s not even that guy’s fault either. The only party at fault is FIFA, the pig-headed governing body that refuses to use video technology. It’s so damn simple and so hard to understand why they can’t see that. Any person who criminalizes Henry’s actions is a nearsighted fool.

I don’t blame Titi and no one else should. The blame should be on the ref. And this ref will go down in history just like the baseball umpires from the 1985 World Series who botch several calls in one game.

I also think since FIFA has ruled that there will be no replay than it is time for Ireland to move on. Now they all need to buy tickets to all the France games in South Africa and boo every time the French touch the ball.

I don’t know why Henry would say that Ireland deserve to be in Sth Africa. If France’s goal had not been scored, the match may have gone to penalties and who knows what might have happened there.

http://www.fifa.com/contact/form.html

Everyone should mass email FIFA declaring them a bollocks organization.

I forgave him the instant Gallas put the ball away. What he did was instinctual and nothing more, and no player would admit to it, it’s not his job. Did Totti admit to a blatant ridiculous dive against Australia in 2006? Same thing if not worse.

FIFA has a right to say that the ref. is sovereign. If he wasn’t, it would be chaos.

If the abolutely shit refs that propelled S. Korea in the WC did not suffer the consequences, how could you ask to judge this ref differently.

I am a romanian. We hate Kim Milton Nielsen and Abramov. After they fucked us, they were still considered top class refs.

Shit happens!

I almost forgive him because he is a professional and it was his job to get France to qualify. However, I don’t think that all other professional footballers would have done the same. I’m not a professional, but if a ball was bouncing up at me, I would at least try to make an effort to play it legally. What Henry did was consciously make a decision to handball without even trying to play the ball first.

If he was so fair and nice then he would’ve told the ref after the play, but he did not. I’m not mad at him I’m just disappointed and won’t look at him the same again. I thought he was one of the real fair players. You don’t have to be Joey Barton to be an ass.

@ Phil. This debate about Henry does not interest me since very few people in sports are 100% honest, in spite of what they want to have us believe. However, re: “Did Totti admit to a blatant ridiculous dive against Australia in 2006? ”

Fyi..Totti took the pk. It was Fabio Gross who was “fouled”.

Roy Keane is absolutely right. Where were the defenders? Where was the GK? You play to the whistle, nothing else. Just big babies.

Deleted – Daryl

Who’s this “we”? I can assure you people all over the world don’t really give a damn. Have the English ever forgiven Maradona? Certainly people in S. America don’t give a damn about the hand of god.

So we’re supposed to reduce a man’s entire life and career to one incident?

Do we apply this kind of moral judgment to ourselves? The sanctimonious moralizing and demonizing of this man beggars belief.

I’ve been a football fan for over 40 years and in that time I’ve suffered a sense of injustice from incidents that hurt teams I support. But I never expect players to be “role models.” I’ve been angry at certain players but I’ve never reduced them into caricatures of evil, reduced their entire lives and careers to a caricature and indulged in some kind of witch hunt lynch mob mentality against them. There are players who’ve committed far FAR FAR worse acts than Henry has and yet still I’d never demand that they be banned for life.

As Charles Barkley once said “I’m not a role model” – it’s your own problem if you actually expect athletes to be that.

Henry made a mistake, and the French Football Federation is leaving him alone out there to endure the lynch mob of hatred from all over the world, without any support.

john, NO ONE is saying Henry didn’t cheat.

If fifa want fair play they must replay this tie.

And btw, john, the people who screeching the loudest about Henry are the people who ALREADY hated him and hated France, like you. Henry haters and France haters are LOVING this whole thing so they can indulge in their favorite pasttime of trashing Henry and France, it’s got nothing to do with any moral sensibilities.

sandrahn,

Please ignore john. He’s a known troll. All his comments will be deleted.

As an American fan of the beautiful game, the game has many, many advantages over its more popular stateside brethren. But one big disadvantage that never ceases to amaze me is the unbearably sanctimonious fans and the ridiculous unrealistic standards to which they hold soccer players. They would never, ever think to hold other athletes to the same standard. For example:

–in football, whenever a player is tackled with the ball, they almost always then stretch their arms out and place the ball further up the field than it actually was when they were tackled. They do this in a deliberate attempt to decieve the referee into putting the ball further up the field than it should be. And when this happens near the goal line, the player and his teammates always try to convince the referee that it was a touchdown. Oh nos! Cheating! Yet when was the last time you heard a football player criticized for doing that?

–in baseball, whenever there is a line drive that the player makes an attempt to catch close to the ground, the player always lifts his glove up with the ball in an attempt to convince the referee that he caught it on the fly, even if (especially if, actually) the ball hit the ground right before it went into his glove. Intentional deception of the umpire–cheating, right? Never, ever criticized. Similarly, on every single pitch which is outside the strike zone, the catcher instantly moves his glove over the plate to trick the umpire into calling it a strike. Never criticized–in fact, it’s praised as being “savvy.”

–In basketball, basically whenever there’s a foul, the player who committed the foul raises his arms straight up and gives the referee the “who, me?” look, even when he just clotheslined the other player. Players who knock the ball out of bounds always try to trick the referees into thinking it went off a player from the other team. Again, intentional deception of the referee–never criticized.

And yet, when it happens in soccer, people expect the offending player to immediately go to the referee and confess his grievous sins, refuse to accept the goal/benefit, throw himself before the mercy of God and Mary, and accept whatever punishment the opposing fans see fit. Anything less, and he’s an unsporting cheat. How does this blatant double standard possibly make sense?

The bottom line is that Henry broke the rules, like all players do at one time or another, but because it was on a big stage and it didn’t get caught, he’s being crucified in the media. If the linesman had been competent and called a free kick, Ireland would have had a free kick, play would have continued and the incident would have been forgotten. And yet, he would have done the exact same thing, and been just as blameworthy, in that circumstance. So basically what we’re left with is that Thierry Henry did what 99.9% of all athletes do, and is only being called a cheat and an awful sportsman because the referee failed in his job. Let’s get some perspective here, huh?

One thing this Henry thing has done is sell a lot of tabloids and given a lot of sites good hits over the last few days.

Totally agree to Martin above.. nearly all players bend the rules… we can go to the history books and videos and get videos of literally all players doing this at one point or other..
I still don’t understand why there is this moral brigade going on all the time in the English media ..the problem is FIFA, not Henry.. is that so hard to comprehend??

(not the same john that got deleted)

Awwwww. I guess I forgive him, that charming, cheatin’ son of a gun.

FIFA’s decision is based on what I had stated earlier:

By sscouser | November 19th, 2009 at 10:47 am

The goal by France was not due to technical error so forget about “a precedent is a precedent”.

There is a difference between a “technical error” and “a mistake by a game official”. According to FIFA:

Technical Error = misinterpretation of the rules by the official

Example:

In a match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain, the first of a home-and-home series to see which of the two would meet the CONCACAF region’s fourth-place finisher in a playoff for a berth in the 2006 World Cup Germany, Japanese referee Toshimitsu Yoshida disallowed a penalty kick made by Uzbek Server Djeparov, ruling there had been encroachment in the penalty area by a Uzbek teammate. But Yoshida did not allow Uzbekistan to retake the penalty, as is clearly stated in the rule book; instead inexplicably awarding a free kick to Bahrain.

Mistake by game official = error in judgement/judgment

Example:

Disallowing a goal for an offside that replay shows never happened. That is a judgement/judgment call that has to stand.
http://www.worldcupblog.org/world-football/ireland-demands-replay-with-honest-to-goodness-precedent.html

Posted from United States

Africa Cup of Nations Angola 2010 Draw Held
http://malawi.worldcupblog.org/team-news/africa-cup-of-nations-angola-2010-draw-held.html

Err. What are we forgiving him for again? Being a competitive player?

There’s nothing to be forgiven.

The ref however should be stoned.

Look, just because the referee didn’t see it doesn’t mean it’s okay, and to claim otherwise is ridiculous. Sport is meant to be played by sportsmen and last night Henry showed that he isn’t one, by celebrating the way he did and sticking his head in the sand afterward, claiming he “didn’t intentionally handball it”. Yes, the referee screwed up, but his job is hard enough as it is without players making it that much harder by blatantly cheating. Players have a responsibility to play the game fairly and to abide by the laws of the game. Henry didn’t. Sadly he’s not the first and he won’t be the last, these days cheating is seen as an acceptable part of the game. Just because some players choose to bend or break the rules doesn’t make it alright, and we shouldn’t just roll over and say it doesn’t matter what he did, just because others have cheated before him.
That being said, the linesman should have caught the offside.

I love what Roy Keane had to say about this issue as you posted earlier.

I will not forgive him until after World Cup 2010. And that is only if he does not play a single second. If he does then there will never be any forgiveness for his actions.

Wait so now it’s the referee’s fault Henry cheated him? Is it the referee’s fault when Inzaghi or Eduardo swan dive to get a penalty? Obviously, they didn’t see it, or if they did, the FFF pays very well.

Very nice of Titi, although very convenient that he’s saying this after FIFA ruled out any possibility of a replay:

Buddy who the hell are you criticising one of the greatest strikers of all time? Are you a PERFECT SAINT? Have you ever played this game at that level?

Why don’t you ask Shay Given how come he didn’t rush to the ref. to call the Penalty? He clearly grabbed Anelka in the box didn’t he?
Forgive what? It’s a game, stop this non sense of vilifying someone for something so pitiful. Get over it, we did after the Zidane sent off!
When will we forgive you and your buddies for all this non-sense, that is my question?

I forgave him as soon as I heard about it. But there isn’t much to forgive. Anyway, what ever happened to this: “10. Thierry Henry is not involved. I know, I know. The Henry handball story was and is huge. But I’m ready to move on.” ?

Ha, fair enough Thomas. But in my defence… the above post was already half-written when I wrote the MLS post you’re referring to.

I agree it’s part of the game, it was done on purpose to get an advantage and admitting to it
after the ruling came down does not make him a stand up guy. Iv’e alway’s been a fan of his
but this brings him down a notch for me.

Look I don’t think it was anything more then an impulsive reaction. When a ball is coming at my head I squint my eyes, raise my arm and duck- thats the human reality. Regardless if you are in a football game or not you have hands and when you’re moving a million miles and hour and goal is right there sometimes they do their job without you even thinking about it. It happened so fast he probably didn’t realize what had happened till the ball was already heading towards the back of the net. And then he celebrated like anyone else in football would have done. Lets not stone Henry or the ref. Both offensives are easily understandable. The ref did a great job throughout the game except for that half second of play. We don’t know what would have happened if France hadn’t gotten that goal. It doesn’t mean they still wouldn’t have won. I honestly wanted both teams to be in the World Cup next year (rather them two then Portugal and Bosnia) but I do think the better of the team is going to South Africa. Shit happens.

Look, it is a big deal to Ireland. We would all feel that way if the only reason our team didn’t qualify for the World Cup was related to a handball. What really bothers me is that Henry won’t be disciplined for this at all. Video shows he handled the ball, twice actually. Now, if he got caught with the handball by the ref, he may very well have recieved a red card. Why isn’t anyone charging him with the red card? Other sports have punished people after the fact when reviewing video. This is what leaves soccer looking ridiculous to eyes of people who already don’t like it. A big name in the sport has gotten away with cheating after he was caught on video and admitted to it. In the very least there should be some sort of suspension for this. Otherwise, FIFA looks like an organisation that doesn’t take their sport seriously.

I love soccer and have for some time. But I have to say its all about money money money france bring in alot more money in than ireland, Also the head of fifa is a french man. It was offside from the free kick and a hand ball all in one play. If fifa want to do some thing about cheating in soccer how strong a point would be to not allow henry to play in the world cup. Then you would never have this problem again.

So what if it is a hand ball, what did you want Henry to do say no its not a goal , no way that’s what he is spouse to do, try to win, if the referee did not see it and the match is over, then hard luck for the Irish team and fans.

nothing wrong. It is not Henry’s job to say to the referee what he has done. It’s down to the referee to see everything. Is it possible for the referee to see everything on the pitch? So why are we waiting to let the tv replay to help the referee?

The coverage that the Henry incident is receiving is ridiculous.

People claiming that “he will be remembered as a cheat” and “his reputation is tarnished for good” are exaggerating. Soon we will hear things such as “he should go to prison”.

The guy has apologised, and even suggested a replay, when are people going to let this go?

Its not as if attacking Henry is going to get you a replay. Move on and remember Henry for the great professional that he is

Thierry Henry should refuse to travel with the French team to SA if this matter is not settled i.e by a replay, He needs to take a principled stand after his admission of guilt and indeed his team mates could follow suit- they are not going there on merit as things stand!

I was never all that upset with Henry, the media kind of forced it in though. Soccer is in real time, yes it looks a lot worse in slow-motion, But so does everything else. France needs to shake it off if they want to succeed in this World Cup.

It’s a very delicate situation since it’s about getting qualified to the WC and it gets more media coverage than normal.
These things often happens in league play.

In my opinion it was not a good move by Henry, it really doesn’t fit him as a professional player. Henry has contributed with his style and magnificent play for so many years – so it’s a shame that this happened.

Who’s to blame? FIFA, Ref, Henry? – you decide.

Good luck to France in the WC and I’m crossing my fingers that Ireland qualifies to the next EC and WC!

John Mullanaphy is right. We should not forgive if Henry is allowed to play the 2010 WC.

I’m sure Henry has been hurt by Irish fans for a long time since we talked about the world cup. A foul in the game is natural and not pro fortune Ireland, but for me personally it was like cheating is not forgiven

EVRA SAYS CHEAT HENRY DESERVES A STATUE
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/football/610712/PATRICE-EVRA-SAYS-CHEAT-THIERRY-HENRY-DESERVES-A-STATUE.html

PATRICE EVRA believes there should be a statue erected to handball cheat Thierry Henry.

The Manchester United defender leapt to the defence of his team-mate and claimed Henry would have been a ‘traitor’ if he’d confessed to the referee he’d cheated Ireland out of a World Cup place.

Evra said: “Frankly, if he had done that, I would have told him: ‘Titi, you have betrayed us’.

“It’s madness. We are arguing about Henry when we should be erecting a statue to him.”

There are rumours in the French media that Henry is so distressed by becoming the target of global abuse he is considering quitting international football.

But Evra responded: “That’s nonsense. Titi is ready now for South Africa. The lad feels bad because his own people are attacking him, but he is solid.

“People will have gone on to something else in a few days. That’s why I thought: ‘Pat, keep your mouth shut or else you will get called arrogant again’.

“But I just don’t accept that people should attack our captain that way.

“For the world’s press to destroy him, no problem. But for we, in France, to join in, it’s not on. It has to stop.

“If Titi had got that goal ruled out by going to see the ref and we had lost, the same people would have talked about his ego.

“They would have said: ‘He is only thinking about himself, his image’.

Hypocrites
“That handball was an instinctive gesture. What sportsman could look at himelf in the mirror and say it couldn’t happen to him.

“Who would have gone to the ref to tell him? These people are hypocrites. We are going to South Africa and that’s all.

“When I think there are politicians who enjoy attacking us…they don’t even know whether the ball is round or oval. They’ll be the first to come and drink champagne in South Africa.

“I returned to Manchester with Irish players and they told me, themselves, that I should have had a penalty in the first game. People have forgotten that”.

Embarrassed
“Of course, I’m angry. Titi doesn’t deserve this. Who committed the error? The refereee, full stop. I spoke to Titi on Thursday. He is disappointed. It is hard that people should attack him in France.

“I was embarrassed at the end of the game, but just by our own performance. We were not good. We came very close to disaster.

“But we showed our guts. I’m not ashamed of anything. I am not going to sing, but I am not ashamed. There is injustice in football all the time.

“I’ll do a replay whenever you want. As long as it’s on PlayStation”

we all make mistakes. forgiveness is good.

Maradonna got 2 months ban because of his hand of God. What rules that FIFA used in 1986 to justify that? Your essay was simplistic!!! The only difference between hand of God and “henball” is one is direct goal converting, while the other indirect.

I did not see the whole game. I saw video replays. But surely it was deliberate handball, touching with left hand 2 times the ball in a second. Why would a referee need to ask to a offender? Only a referee need to ask the linesmen. Isn’t it? If a offender changes his mind, he will approach the referee not the referee approach him.

I do not know whether the referee had asked the linesmen. But i know from the video replay that the referee was 50 m away because that was a free kick from the France side. The referee’s view was blocked by 4 players at the spot of incident where Henry touched the ball deliberately. I am not sure whether the linesmen’s view was blocked. Was the referee at the wrong position when a free kick was conducted a the French half of the field? Would a referee stand at the Irish half of the field to see the free kick sending off? I don’t think the referee had any wrong doing if he had consulted the linesmen. Let me know if any have that information by sending to kmmak2000@gmail.com

If there is a statue for Henry why there was not one for Maradona???

Read more and think more please!

Not confirmed, seems there are reports saying Martin Hansson, the referee got banned for 2 months.

If it is true then what about Henry? Can he get away free? If he gets away free while the referee got punished then it is the most absurd thing ever seen. It is like the policeman sent to jail by the judge while the thief set free because the policeman failed to catch the thief.

Soccer is about passion. Sure. But when passion, affiliation and emotion take over so much above rationale then it is very dangerous. Hooligans and riots are the examples.

Think and think with less passion, emotion and affiliation for now.

Yeah, this happens all the time. Yes indeed. However, it is not a match of your son’s or my son’s soccer in week ends on Sundays. It is World Cup. He is a superstar. He is the captain of a national team. Not a national team of pacific islands. It is a national team of a nation having a seat in the UN Security Council.

This means millions in dollars for France or Ireland, as well the punters.

Wake!

If you are a real fan in soccer, follow it through for an answer.

Everyone who thinks Henry is to blame for this whole debacle is being completely irrational. How about we ask Shay Given why he didn’t admit to the ref that he purposefully tripped Evra in the previous game?

According to http://www.theworldgame.com.au/2010-world-cup/fifa-to-discuss-ireland-exit-260282 “Henry said his reaction in handling the ball had been a split-second instinctive reaction.”

This is very absurd excuse. He touched the ball twice in a split of a second. If it that was not a deliberate professional foul, the second move of the hand after the touching of the ball should be withdrawing backwards, not moving further forward to control the ball. This is a real big lie.

More over, even the first move of the hand to touch the ball was instinctively wanting to make a professional foul to control the ball. This is so apparent from the video replay.

If it was instinctive, he was instinctively wanting to control the ball with his hand.

“The French striker said: “I have said at the time and I will say again that yes I handled the ball. I am not a cheat and never have been.”, http://www.theworldgame.com.au/2010-world-cup/fifa-to-discuss-ireland-exit-260282 .

If Henry’s handball was not a cheat, ie not deliberate, why he didn’t approach the referee and tell that he handled the ball. But instead, he said should the referee had asked him he would tell. He was deliberate. He did not inform, but instead throw the responsibility to the referee right after the match.

Henry, who issued a statement saying a replay would be the fairest solution only after world government body FIFA said the result would stand, said he regretted the way he had celebrated the decisive goal.(http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/23112009/58/world-cup-fifa-hold-meeting-incidents.html)

If that was “ball hit the hand” not “hand hit the ball”, why Henry admitted replay would be the fairest?

If that was “ball hit the hand” then it was all legitimate, and the match result was all legitimate. Why he had to call for a replay? It is so obvious and blatant that he did it intentionally!

I dont have a problem with Henry, my problem is with FIFA they need to clean house they are talking about coruption in Football they should start with themself coz they STINK of coruption and the ref Martin H should be ban for life from the game as for how I will remember Henry well he’s a cheat and nothing more but i can forgive him, what else can we do, move on , just too bad he will be remebered as a CHEAT.

Roy Keanes comments said it all. Period.

Hopefully Henry will
have the decency to retire from international football.

people who say it was impulsive reaction are rubbish.

my impulse would be to try to NOT use my hands at all.

it’s like us americans who drive. we’re taught not to drive automatics with both our feet. so when we’re about to crash into something? instictive/impulsively, we slam our right foot onto the brakes. not our left, not both feet, only our right foot.

in all the time i’ve played soccer, i not onced had the impulse to grab/control a ball with my hands, especially not within scoring distance.

I can understand a player being caught with his hand in the air when a ball comes in. I can even understand going for a header and your hand getting in the way of the ball. For Henry he saw an opportunity to cheat and took advantage of it. The ball hit his hand and when the whistle wasn’t called what did he do? He used his hand to direct the ball so he could make the pass and get France the goal. Acting on impulse? I think not. His actions were thought out and executed with him believing that nobody would notice. And if he really was acting on impulse then why on earth would he do his celebratory victory gallop acting like it was a well fought goal rather than a muted celebration over a referee error?

I still do not know why there are so many around the world to say that Henry does not deserve a punishment (despite not majority) and an inquest by FIFA.

I really want to know around the world whether only Australia has a after match review panel.

Below is a “clip” from the A-league, Australia:

“Independent Match Review Panel – Round 17
Monday, 7 December 2009
by FFA

Ben Sigmund
Ben Sigmund

The independent Match Review Panel, consisting of Barry Such (Chair), Alan Davidson and Simon Micallef, convened to consider the following incident from Round 17 of the Hyundai A-League:

The incident involving Ben Sigmund (Wellington Phoenix FC) and Adrian Leijer (Melbourne Victory FC) in the 36th minute of the match between the clubs on Friday night. As the incident escaped the attention of referee, the MRP has the authority to consider the incident. The MRP alleges that Ben Sigmund had committed the offence of “Assault on a Player (e.g. violent conduct when not challenging for the ball)” against Leijer and proposes a sanction of three (3) matches. This is one (1) additional match to the two (2) match minimum sanction for such an offence. The player has until 12.00 noon (AEDT) tomorrow to accept the proposed sanction or refer the matter to a hearing by the FFA Disciplinary Committee.”

It is not only soccer in Australia has a review panel, also is the AFL, and NRL, and Ruby Union.

I do not ask for forgiveness… you have all cheated in one way or another. Ireland did not complain when a blatant favorable call was made in a previous game. Ireland should not blame me for their own inadequacies. THank you. I am not a cheat. ~T. Henry

T. Henry,

In your words you admitted cheating. “you have all cheated in one way or another”, you said. How dare you are accusing everyone has cheat.

And in the last part you said, “I am not a cheat.” Are you sober?

You use a name “T. Henry”. I don’t think you are Thierry Daniel Henry.

Most of the world still haven’t forgiven Zidane for his disgraceful 06 world cup exit of shame so Henry has a long way to go

Title: instinctive action vs reflex action

Secondary school biology students know what is reflex action. Upon a stimulus, the body will involuntary react without the need of control of the brain; this action is called reflex action which only needs the spinal cord in the vertebral column to control. For instance, if someone’s hand accidentally touched high heat, his hand will retreat quickly without the thinking of the person’s brain. Once, scientist wanted to use this phenomenon to develop a method to cure “Superman Christopher Reeves”.

On the other hand, instinctive action is something that needs the control of the brain. For example, if a dog, or lion sees something running, instinctively it will chase. In a dog race, when the dogs see the moving electric rabbit, they instinctively chase. A man sees a beautiful woman, instinctively he will think of sex.

Soccer player are trained not to use hands. If Thierry Henry touched the ball instinctive, then, it would mean that either he has been trained to use hands, or he touched deliberately. If he touched the ball accidentally, he would retreat his hand reflexively by the nerves in the spinal cord without the consciousness of the brain.

“True reflexes can be distinguished from instincts by their seat in the nervous system; reflexes are controlled by spinal or other peripheral ganglia, but instincts are the province of the brain.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct), accessed 14 Dec 09.

It is not logical to defend Henry by the pretext of “instinctive action”.