National Pride can be Tough to Swallow

July 3rd, 2006 | by: Peter |

In Hamburg, the scene is familiar. The main fan festival for the Germany vs. Argentina game is sold out. It’s shut down, closed, better-luck-next-time-buddy, with a blockade of police vehicles keeping the steady stream of fans away from the outdoor screens. The police send the mass down the street to another group of significantly smaller screens in Hamburg’s Reeperbahn district.

As the game starts, one younger German man, with German flags on his face and a Germany jersey stands in the front row, like they would in America and many other countries, for the German national anthem.

Until recently, such a gesture would have been considered a show of neo-Nazi support. Even the simple statement, “I’m proud to be German” would be taken to mean that you’re proud of the actions of Germany in an era of history that is now usually only alluded to. The crowd seems to be making a special effort not to notice the man partially blocking their view, this peculiarity of this sight a strange reminder of “the time more than 50 years ago.”

The audience itself would be an unusual sight in Germany even ten years ago. They are dressed in black, red and yellow, their shirt declaring an affinity for “Deutschland” and their cheeks colored with the colors of their country.

For the first time since West Germany’s World Cup championship in 1990, Germany is showing the kind of patriotism that has not been seen for the last half century. German flags fly high in the wind on cars and buildings and wave in the hands of those chanting “Deutsch-land, Deutsch-land” around Berlin.

Such pride has been frowned upon for an entire generation, and a display of the flag in any way seen as a declaration of extreme right-wing ideology. Some Germans find the patriotism disturbing.

“Last time you’ve seen that was 70 years ago with the Nazi’s,” said a German man named Hannes. “I don’t like to see a couple hundred thousand Germans waving flags in a group. There is a deep rooted skepticism (about patriotism).”

Much of the flag waving and wearing is no doubt a result of the world’s attention during the World Cup and the month-long-party atmosphere kindled by the national team’s success on the field. One German tabloid renamed the flag’s colors, “Schwarz, rot, geil,” or “black, red and horny,” but the concept of loving Germany is no longer taboo among Germany’s youth.

“There are more younger people waving the flag,” said Sarah Bonau, standing with other younger teenage friends wearing German flags as capes and skirts. “It’s a good thing as long as it doesn’t get to be too much.”

Patrick Hanschmann, another teen, described himself as “very patriotic” and said that he loves Germany because it’s a good place to live. He also likes the party atmosphere of the World Cup and he thinks that Germany’s national pride will continue even after the tournament.

40 year old Gunter Claus disagreed. “It’s just for the football,” he said. “It’s fun action for the moment.” But will there be any increase in patriotism? “Maybe in 2 years,” he said. “For the Eurocup.”

There are few similarities between the harmless, partying, flag wearing, drink-and-be-happy crowd that comes out to mingle and cheer when Germany plays and the dangerous, violent, underground neo-Nazi movement, but the two inevitably blend when football and Germany’s national history and identity intertwine.

Filmmaker Lars Pape, whose recent documentary “Why Three-Thirty?” explored soccer as a social and connective phenomenon, was visibly upset when he spotted someone wearing a Thor Steinar t-shirt at the Fan Mile.

Thor Steinar, a German clothing label trademarked in 2002, is popular among neo-Nazis and the proceeds are thought to indirectly contribute to the right-wing extremist movement.

Wearing that brand, Pape said, is like announcing to the world that you hate colored people, gays and you are extremely conservative.

Pape said he learned filming his documentary that it’s impossible to get more than 1,000 football fans together without getting any assholes in the group, but he was angry that the fan was going to walk by the police and the police weren’t going to do anything.

Berlin Police officers said that while the old logo is outlawed in Germany for resembling a swastika, the new logo has been legal to wear in public since last year. They said that if a fan were wearing a shirt with the old logo, they would be arrested and the shirt confiscated.

Neo-Nazi activities, hyped by some media as a possible disruption to the games, have not made headlines other than their embrace of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for his anti-Israel statements. Some known neo-Nazis have been seen wearing Iran jerseys and shirts.

Instead, newspapers have been focused on the new sense of national pride alien to the country’s timid patriotic spirit. And while there is no definite answer to whether or not the national pride will continue after the July 9 final, Germany will still have an economic boost and the praise of the people of 31 other nations who traveled there to watch their teams and found Germany a welcoming, organized, party-friendly World Cup host.

Back in Hamburg, a group of two young women sitting behind the man that stood for the national anthem is waving their flags in the air during the game. The conversation is in German but with the finger pointing and stern tone the message is unmistakable. Someone behind them asks them to put the flags away, please, out of respect for the other people in the crowd who are getting upset. Between the man standing during the anthem and these kids waving their German flags, some in the audience have been complaining that they can’t see the screen.

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Luke

There’s nothing wrong with national pride. Anyone offended needs to lighten up. Europeans have become more acceptant of Muslim immigrants than their own cultures and heritage. Liberalism is going to kill Europe.
SumYung Gie

good Article, enjoyed reading it, I find it Ludicrious and very Ironic that Neo-Nazis are wearing Iranian national team Jerseys, Just because of one Twisted dude’s Statements. It is a crazy world we live in
dirk

As a German living in the US, I fail to see why Germans being patriotic is wrong. Germany has a lot to be proud of these days. We have worked hard to be a democratic society, and frankly, I think we’ve done a damn good job.
Raybron

There’s nothing good or bad about simple patriotism- it’s like cheering on all Chicago teams because you live in Chicago, just blind mindless faith. But when you add the kind of rabid, often genocidal violence that usually starts as simple “national pride” (or disguised as such) then you have something to be concerned about.

People who say “patriotism is great, yeah!” are looking only at patriotism countries they think are great (US, England, Germany, whatever). But people aren’t just madly patriotic in countries whose governments you don’t happen to find distasteful or dangerous, people are also “patriotic” in war-time Serbia, in Iran, in North Korea, etc. etc. (not singling out these countries to make the point necessarily that they are less deserving of patriotism, but rather that patriotism occurs everywhere). I have to say while I am critical of policies of many countries, there’s nothing more frightening than a huge, powerful nation of “patriotic” people.

As great as being a “patriot” is, as so many recent country songs have reminded us, let’s hope the Chinese don’t get too many Toby Keith albums that convince them to get all “patriotic” us and invade Taiwan.
Raybron

PS, if we have to put up with dumb patriotic blatter in our chants, can we come up with something better than:

“U-S-A! U-S-A!”
“Deutsch-land! Deutsch-land!”

Easily the two worst chants at the cup.
Luke

Haha, agree with the last post. I love hearing the English fans more than any other. You can hear “God Save the Queen” so loud and clearly. It’s fantastic.
dirk

I think God Save the Queen is as phenomenal as it gets. It says everything about the world ccup
dirk

And you know what, Deutschland, Deutschland is so sweet right know.
Raybron

I will admit it, I find “Deutsch-land! Deutsch-land!” bone-chilling. And that awful video makes it even more so!

US fans should sing “God Bless America” or something. I think that would make a good chant. Anything that doesn’t sound like we’re cheering on Sergeant Slaughter at Wrestlemania.
dirk

and wait to hear the noise in the Dortmunder Westfalenstadion. If you thought Germany was vocal before, you ain’t heard nothing yet
http://yahoo Vaani

It’s quiet heart breaking on looking the England players sheding tears after the defeat
minhoca

It looks like Germany is finally “getting over” WWII… and it’s about time…the current generation is not responsible for the crimes of their ancestors. Here in the USA we still have an entire TV channel (the “History” channel) devoted to replaying WWII documentaries.

Germans… your country today is great, you have a lot to be proud of, so cheer away!

That said, I think it is terrible that they arrest people for wearing a swastika or anything else… arresting people for expressing themselves is itself fascist!

KEEP FREE SPEECH FREE
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/ minhoca

Have to agree with Luke… we are dealing with Muslims all wrong. I see them in London chanting “death to the infidels” and nobody arrests them… but they arrest for wearing a swastika?

Do we get free speech in their countries? No, we can’t go to any Muslim countries and get the rights that they get here

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/
dirk

The Swastika stands against everything we in Germany believe in today. It has no place in our society. It, unlike a statement in the US, is a statement against a society that has had to work its butt off to prove itself. Sorry, but I have no tolerance for people that can’t tolerate others. No fascist I have ever met is tolerant
Freddy

I think the point we need to re-echo here is racism – which translates to hatred for a paticular race/faith. If today’s Germany has risen up to fight against the evil of racism, then Germany deserves to shout all they want, and be patriotic of how far their country has moved on. But if the past (of racial supremacy) still lurks in the hearts and minds of the people, then a greater awakening is required.

God bless Germany!
dirk

I think we have a great prime minister (a woman, mind you; something the US and many other male centered societies seem to have great difficulties with) and a country that has made every effort over the years to attone for the past. I”m so glad to listen to all the wholier than thou preachers tell Germans they should atone for a few more centuries. Well, forget it. I’m not going to continue to atone for things I haven’t done. I’m just intent on being a decent human being
Claude

As a post war german I have never ever shared this concept of collective guilt. The whole German nation suffered under Nazism. My great uncle in Bavaria spoke out against the Nazis. Next thing he knew he was in a suicide squad on the Russian Front. After the war the British made him the first Buergermeister (mayor) of his village. When he died in 1979 the Alphorns were blown. My uncle’s sister had an affair with a Polish POW and had a child. The Gestapo found out and came to their Black Forest farm and hung the Polish POW as a warning to his comrades. The baby was taken away and never seen again. My uncle’s sister was taken to a concentration camp where experiments were performed on her. She survived the war but her health was so badly damaged she didn’t survive the winter of 1945-46. My uncle lost two brothers on the Russian front in 1943. One died in the siege of Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) and one was killed by a sniper somewhere in Russia or the USSR as it was known then. I am proud to be a German and I wish I could be over there right now wearing one of those German hats and screaming Deutschland. I just wish that Germany would arrest persons flying communist flags or spouting Marxist crap. Stalin was a bigger butcher than Hitler ever was. A left wing extremist is as bad as a far right extremist. My father was a French officer with the French occupation forces in Rastatt and I have never met him or talked to him. Seems that back in 1949 it was OK for the French officers to knock up German women but not to marry them. You bet I am hoping for a Germany – France final so we can kick their arrogance in the ass.
Raybron

“I just wish that Germany would arrest persons flying communist flags or spouting Marxist crap. Stalin was a bigger butcher than Hitler ever was. A left wing extremist is as bad as a far right extremist.”

Um, last I checked in GERMANY, the Communists weren’t responsible for the Holocaust. That might have something to do with it. But I guess since “Stalin was a bigger butcher than Hitler ever was” then Germany should just ignore its past because, you know, somewhere in the history of the world there was someone else who also killed a lot of people. Great reasoning there.
dirk

How nice Raybron; you’re just an illustration of why the world never moves on (including Iraq).
Raybron

It’s called learning from your past. You might wanna look it up, in a book, you know, the place where you do the learning. Dur but let’s just move on and ignore all of human history.
dirk

Raybron; the thing is, we have learned, have you? And as far as reading books go, I think you have some catching up to do, given American educational levels these days.
Raybron

PS dirk,

I can you are mistaking what I am saying as knocking Germany today I am not. They are not perfect, but I admire Germany today for MANY things, not the least of which is their tough stance on racism and hate. Germany DOES NOT have to be “ashamed” forever for no reason. But it is one thing to be ashamed and another to be proactive in owning up to your history and taking appropriate intelligent reasonable measures, which in most cases Germany manages to pull off. That is all I am saying.
Raybron

PS dirk,

In case you are mistaking what I am saying as knocking Germany today I am not. Germany is not perfect, but I admire Germany today for MANY things, not the least of which is their tough stance on racism and hate. Germany DOES NOT have to be “ashamed” forever for no reason. But it is one thing to be ashamed and another to be proactive in owning up to your history and taking appropriate intelligent reasonable measures, which in most cases Germany manages to pull off. That is all I am saying.

Also, as far as my schooling for what it’s worth since you brought it up assuming something, my elementary education was in France and my secondary and undergraduate and post-graduate was in America, where I have been very content in finishing law school and getting to meet students from Germany’s finest universities getting their LLM degrees here.
dirk

Well, then we are dueling lawyers. All in good spirit. I don’t profess to get too uptight about this all. After all, it is a sport.
Raybron

Haha of course. After the US lost to Italy I was upset, but I did not punch Italian fans in the face, I merely spit in their general direction. Time to make friends indeed.
Raybron

Tied, that is. Though it felt like a loss in retrospect apparently.
dirk

Ah, that is where Germany wins in penalty kicks
Orio

“Europeans have become more acceptant of Muslim immigrants than their own cultures and heritage. Liberalism is going to kill Europe.”

It seems to me that for certain groups of people “muslim bashing” has now become quite acceptable and even quite fashionable…like it was previously acceptable to bash jews or people having a darker shade of skin.

Anyway I think showing patriotism in sports is all good and fair..Germans should feel proud of their team…I see nothing wrong in that.
Dave Hamilton

Reeperbahn? LOL, there are “other” forms of entertainment there for sure. Football might get second schrift.
dirk

Indeed, I don’t think on the Reeperbahn they’re singing wir fahren nach Berlin
troy

national pride is the whole point of the cup. you should be allowed to celebrate it. but why in hell is there so many bad winners from europe. they riot when they win for gods sake. and they rub it in to the losing side like i have never seen. it doesnt help when the losing side are angry about the refs.
Denni

I’ve got to confess that watching Germans flag-waving on TV still makes me uneasy. But I left Germany over 20 years ago. Maybe these people are right–it’s time to move on and it’s OK to display a bit of patriotism.

Saying that, the St. George’s Cross flying everywhere here in England also makes me uneasy. In my mind, it’s still linked to the BNP and hooliganism, but clearly the English fans have proven my prejudices wrong, so loosen up everyone!

And after Saturday, there are a lot fewer of the things around ;)
http://www.politikpla.net Chirs

Just a little correction: “Schwarz, rot, geil” would be translated as “Black, red, great” and not “Black, red, horny”. The word “geil” can mean “horny” but in every day life it is mostly used as a synonym for “cool”, “great”, “fantastic”, etc.
LuvIngerland

There’s nothing wrong with national pride. We should all be accepting of other nations and cultures – they deserve to be proud of their heritage. I love everyone!

Unless they’re English. Then it’s ok to hate those bastards.
squiggle

I find patriotism awkward (which makes watching the World Cup an interesting experience :) ) but German patriotism is neither better nor worse than any other type, so good for them. Collective guilt is a repulsive idea.
Peter

The fact that people can’t get over a wave of German national pride during the World Cup is mind boggeling. The world community should be happy to see the Germans celebrating and participating in the euphoria of world soccer. Thousands of German fans went to all the games and always supported the underdogs. The country has prepared itself for this event for the last 10 years, has spend billions of Euros, has instilled a sense of hospitality and friendlyness to it’s citizens which have been in anticipation of this event for years. The fact that their team, which was viewed as a undeserving participant, were it not for their host qualification, now has made it to the semis. This surely gives the Germans all the rights to celebrate and be proud of their team. Seems to me it is folks from the so called “free and democratic” nations that always try to mix politics and sports. Germany deserves to be proud of itself and I hope (they) will be rewarded for their great efforts over the last decade.
Lulu

I could throw a potentially explosive thought in here: Squiggle says that collective guilt is a repulsive idea. I generally agree, certainly when a place like Germany has done 60 years of amazing self-examination. Sure there are some idiots who still like swastikas, there always will be in all nations. But the Germans deserve to be proud!

That said, I think Japan has never addressed WW2. Their school books are amazing in their revisionism and complete lack of mention of attrocities. My grandfather fought in WW2 and Korea. He used to say he couldn’t watch MASH because it wasn’t funny to him. The issue of WW2 continues to enrage Korea, for one. And of course, it is always fun when a place that has legitimate complaints, such as China, is in itself guilty of horrors (Tibet, Cultural Revolution, “Great Leap Forward”).

The fact that many, and I mean a big percentage, in Russia miss Stalin is terrifying — he killed, conservatively, 30 million people. This is not a person or government to miss. But it is basically a big no-no to address this publicly.

You get to stop your collective guilt when you actually have addressed your crimes. Rest assured, as a US citizen, I apply the same rules to us!

Excessive patriotism is scary no matter the source. Happy Fourth of July! (That was a joke, but not as funny as I might like.)

I truly wish all of you peace, and a wonderful rest of the Cup, no matter who wins.
sumyung gei

This may be a bit extreme or off topic, but I feel the need to get a point across about why German pride is perfectly fine and should be fine by all. I am a Canadian Citizen with Armenian descent. Most of you here probably haven’t heard about the Armenian Genocide by Turkey in 1915 WWI. Unlike Germany, The Turkish Government Up to this day still denies there systematic attempt to annihilating the Armenian race from the face of the earth. For those of you who still feel a bit uncomfortable by German pride and patriotism, please look at things from this perspective, the holocaust happened at least 20 years after the Armenian Genocide and Young Ottoman Turkish government at the time slaughtered about 1.5 Armenians as oppose to 6 plus million jews and others that were murdered by the Nazi German government. Here’s my Question, Why Germany is the country it is today? a Rich country in the heart of Europe which is admired and respected by it’s neighboring European Countries and all other countries around the world? Why is Germany a World Class country that can welcomingly host any kind of World Class events, including this World Cup? I mean after all this very country just 65 years ago was ready to take over the world and kill anybody that was not from the “Arian” race, I mean how can this be? why do people trust and respect Germany and there Government?, The answer to that is very easy. because since WWII Germany has done all they could to Clean up the bloody mess that was Nazi Germany. Until today they work on there reputation to be the peaceful, multicultural nation that they are, and trying more to be( of course within every country there are always the bad apples) Rayborn said it best above…”But it is one thing to be ashamed and another to be proactive in owning up to your history and taking appropriate intelligent reasonable measures, which in most cases Germany manages to pull off.” now switching gears back to Turkey. A nation that has to still be proactive in owning up to there history and taking appropriate intelligent reasonable measures, to clean up there 90 year old blood stained hands of there Ancestors, Until today the Turkish Government denise that genocide took place in 1915. http://www.theforgotten.org. I hate to sound bias to this argument as an Armenian, but I just like to point out the difference between a country that understands and admits there mistakes from the past and does everything to there power to rebuild and bring justice to the surface. and a country who, for generations hides in the shadows of there guilt. Turkey, yes to a certain level has a place in the world, and many countries back the Turkish government mainly(and sometimes only) because of economic reasons, U.S being a good example of that. (but than again what wouldn’t US do for Economic reasons around the world?) having said these, I also raise the Question of why Turkey is having a hard time entering the European Union? hmm could this be a moral issue? does it have to do a lot with there dark history? and there lousy way of handling it throughout the years and until today? maybe, or maybe not..they just haven’t done enough to earn the respect of the world like Germany has.
I wonder if the day would ever come when FIFA officials ever consider Turkey as a host for the World Cup? and the Turkish people would wave there flags around patriotically, and chant Turkish pride, for many reasons: I doubt that will be happened anytime in the next few decades, for those of you who still feel uncomfortable about Germany and there National Pride, please don’t they have paid there dues and now they have the right to forget about them. A nations dark history cannot be changed or forgotten until it is first recognized and accepted by the nation itself.
Sis

Hi- a fantastic and accurate article from an American perspective. As we prepare to glorify ourselves and flaunt our gluttony on the 4th, take notice—nothing like our holiday exists in Germany and your article truly shows why. I am very curious to see if there are any sustained changes in patriotism (or attitude in general) throughout Germany when i return in September.

By the way, I hope you are still having a great trip! lpt.
Sam

In reply to sumyung gei:

I agree with everything you said there. But we can’t forget that the situation in post-Second World War Germany, was a very different one from the situation in post-First World War Turkey… Germany’s government was totally taken over by the invading forces, Turkey’s government was left pretty much in tact, because the British government wanted Turkey left as it was (economics as usual)…

Basically Germany was forced to face up to what had been done through the trials. Almost all of the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide were never brought to justice, besides one I believe. If it had been the other way around I wonder what attitudes would be like in either country. I’m guessing attitudes would be at least somewhat reversed.