Big Question: Have there been too few goals?

Well Blatter, if you brought in tv evidence there would be more goals you stupid old goat. And less officious officials would help as well. You cant even bloody tackle or go for a header now. Its bloody ridiculous!

This tournament started off great but totally fizzled out when it hit the last 16, despite there been a few good games but far too many rotten ones. Football has changed, the coaches are too scared off losing thus the low goals tally.

Whats happened with the great 3 2 matches of old. Only been one in this tournament and that was irrelevant.

Goals are great and I guess a World Cup devoid of goals would be … well… boring.

But having said that, I don’t agree with Blatter (I make it a habit not to).

I think the quality of the game is so much more important. And this is where we are talking about not just goals, but passing, ball control, possession, defence etc.

So, I think things are just fine the way they are.

For the final time, Blatter, stop trying to muck up the game!!

Yeah and you could stop all the ridiculous protection that goalkeepers get as well.

Im sure if you fart in the direction of the keeper its a foul these days. Then we would see more goals. Too many rules = less fun.

Sounds familiar doesnt it.

Quality is ok Affin, its excitement that is lacking

as Cantona says in the joga ad’s, 4-4-2 or 1-1-8 formation?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9202597430295501864&q=4+4+2

I think the refs are way too strict then lax at decicive moments. Diving needs to be completely rooted out by giving red cards when you see a dive that you’re 100% sure about, like all those portugese dives in the box against france.

Mara1ona,

I know what you mean. But I don’t equate excitement to goals.

Blatter is a showman and a salesman. He wants football to be in every country and especially in teh USA (where there is some money).

Football is not just goals it is game, style, class and gamemanship. To get to the semifinals the teams are quite good and they tend to be well matched hence often the awful penalties, except in certain cases where tactics and brilliance win the game like Germany – Italy 0-2.

I like the game and the goals but I am not losing too much sleep on it on increasing the average.

Just goals is clearly too simplistic. Penalty shots aren’t all that exciting. Flowing sets of plays, great passes, spectacular saves, continuus action – that’s great. Whining to refs, pretending to be dying, passing back to the goal keeper isn’t.

So the question should be how to increase the exciting stuff – and cut the garbage? Some possible solutions:

1) Add another ref – someone to look off the ball.

2) Get offsides right – have another official looking at when the ball is passed – so that the linesman can focus on where the player is.

3) Automatic yellow for sticking your arms and whining to the ref.

4) Add subs in OT one for each 15 minutes – tired players aren’t all that thrilling to watch. Maybe also make it 10 on 10 for overtime too.

5) After a foul don’t let the defensive players get back behind the ball. You can come back beside, but no further.

etc.

But the biggest goal is not just goals – but exciting play.

I agree that there haven’t been too many goals. I don’t necessarily aggre with the comments here that the referees are protecting defenders.
In fact, if anything i think that referees allow too much. All the josting with shirt-pulling and holding in free-kicks and corners is an absolute disgrace.
Also the time wasted at every set-piece to allow the tall central defenders to go forward is pathetic. They should just be taken right away to allow teams to surprise opponents instead of going for a chess like set-play.
The challenging issue is how to force things to be more fluent and to avoid the shirt-pulling, holding, and the subsequent diving, theathrical acts without showing loads of cards, which also does not help the game.
I think we all aggree, that football should be 11 against 11 with mostly running goals instead of finishing 9 against 9 or so with most of the goals coming from penalties.

The solution of refereeing is not having more referee’s on the field, but giving more responsibility to the line referees. They should be allowed to make calls – and given more responsibility in the game.

Secondly, based on replays, albeit late, decisions should be reversed, or fouls should be given – based on a fourth official. At least the controversial ones. Lahm fouled Maxi Rodriguez in the penalty area, and the referee showed Maxi the yellow card. These things can change a game. The referees have a headset attached to them already in this world cup to talk with the fourth official… just take it a small step further for controversial decisions.

In Italia 90, Defensive dispositions were the norm… you would get 10 men in your own half and sacrifice any chance of scoring. After this extreme, offenses risked more, and became more sophisticated and precise, thus giving rise to higher averages in 1994 through 2002. What we are seeing now is not necessarily a degradation in offense but a effort by defenses to match the sophisticastion and progress cultivated by offenses over the last decade. This is a postive development for many reasons…
It means that defenses can be staunch without sacrificing as much offensively. They press and pounce, trying to cut off upfield movements at the source (or close to it) instead of packing it in and absorbing. By cutting off these movements early, you get more activity and better position on average when recovering the ball. So even in 0-0 games, you are seeing proactive teams that keep you enthralled. Baseball cherishes the “no hitter” for it’s often elusive perfection. This is how I view 0-0. If offensive sophistication outstrips defensive science too much, predictable attcking patterns will begin to emerge and watching a soccer match will become like playing “Super Mario Brothers” for the 900,000th time… you know the “trick” to beat it, and can execute it in your sleep. We need some nil-nil desperately, too keep the sport from degrading into predictable gameplay.

Having said that, I agree that ref’s have intervened too much and in the wrong situations. diving needs to go… once this happens the game will really take off… whatever the final score.

I like everyones comments, very thoughtful. It could also be that, like other sports, the players these days are all getting stronger and faster, just like hockey, so the old size of the fields is containing the players too much. Maybe they need to try 10 v 10 from the get go to create more room. I also think they need to institute a line about 40 yards out that is like hockey, once the ball is passed that line there is no more offsides. Offside traps in the goal area on free kicks and corners is just stupid.

And finally, I’m not sure what the rules say, but I would outfit my players with almost skin tight shorts with a skin tight shirt, all covered in Vaseline. Lets see someone grab THAT!

i hate blatter but i agree..too few goals… i think fifa should tinker with the game.. much as i love it this is the worst world cup in a while…teams are so conservative…. its become so hard to open up games….

necessary changes/things to look into:

1. more substitutions allowed particularly if game goes into extra play
2. offsides rule needs to be looked at… i think attackers should have some advantage over defenders..
3. bring technology in to make sure that goals are not being dissallowed cause of misapplication of offsides due to linemen errors.. goals are hard enough to come by without linemen ruling them non goals when they are.

On ESPN last night Bobby McMahon and Max Bretos talked about this, and why the big name strikers underperformed so much at this WC. Everyone talks about Ronaldinho but it wasn’t only him, he’s just the obvious one. They put up a long list of big names everyone expected great things from and who just didn’t impress. The list was called “the invisible men.” One of the conclusions the commentators offered was that this WC was especially marked by a noticeable imbalance in defense v. attacking, where playmakers/strikers were effectively shut down with very aggressive marking, even by mid-level teams like Australia. These names include Shevchenko, Nedved, Raul, Ibrahimovic, Donovan, Borgetti, Roque Santa Cruz, Van Nistelrooy.

We need to go after the fans with whistles, there have been times when the players stopped thinking it was the ref blowing the whistle. Lets throw them out of the stadium!

Here are my ideas to improve soccer:

1. the red/yellow cards are now pretty silly, giving the referee too much power and influence over the game and we have little basis to trust their impartiality (everyone has his price.) I would recommend a penalty box, for which a player would receive escalating time off the field, depending on degree of foul and number of fouls committed (5, 10, 15 minutes.) Tell me this, would a player dive if he thought he might them spend the next 15 minutes thinking about it on the sidelines in the “sin bin?” Simple to enforce, very punishing and more directly punishing to both player and team. Successive fouls (dives) impact player and team substantially

2.No gloves for goal keepers. Look back at games 20-25 years ago, keepers were fortunate to stop any decent shot on the goal. Many wore no gloves. Do we really want it to be easier for keepers to make saves? The answer is no.

3. 2 referees, just like the old time US style referee system used in high school and college. Benefits: 1. seeing the fouls missed, no “Hand of God” occurrences 2. Harder to bribe the refs (and more expensive if they are good negotiators!)

Would welcome comments….

So what? Goals alone don’t make for a great game. Some of the more memorable games have been low scoring. Germany-Argentina, Germany-Italy, England-Portugal. Don’t cheapen the worth of a goal. The look of sheer ecstacy on Grosso’s face celebrating his semi final goal should tell you that.

Thank you Paul! I was getting backed into a corner here…

Anyway, I just wanted to add to my previous comment by sharing a link to an analysis by Graeme Le Saux on Eurosport. It backs up the whole “active defense” without sacrificing offense angle mentioned above.

Enjoy:
http://eurosport.com/football/worldcup/2006/sport_sto921861.shtml

I too miss the days of a 3-2 or 4-3 semi-final. I would like to see the total elimination of the offside rule. Some of these offsides are a question of inches. There is no way that a linesman can keep an eye on the kicker and at the same time look 20 yards or more downfield to see if the player is onside or offside. If the player is a yard or more offside it’s no problem but it becomes as problem when the difference is just inches or less. Also 3 yellow cards before you miss the next game might help too. I also agree with the idea of having a quick restart after a foul. If the defense can’t set up their wall fast enough then let them be punished for it. We don’t need to waste 2 minutes of playing time for a free kick near the box.

ARE YOU SERIOUS MR. Blatter???? I THINK HE JUST SAID THAT BECAUSE THAT WHAT HE THINKS PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR. I HAVE BEEN MORE THAN SATISFIED WITH ALL THE GOALS IN THE WORLD CUP. LISTEN IF YOU THINK YOU THE WORLD CUP NEEDS MORE GOALS FOR YOU TO WATCH YOU SHOULD NOT BE WATCHING IN THE FIRST PLACE, TO ME THE GOALS DETERMINE THE OUT-COME BUT THE JOY IS WATCHING THE GAME, THE INTENSITY, THE CLOSE CALLS, THE GOALS THAT ALMOST WERE, YOU KNOW, THAT’S FOOTBALL. TO ME SOME OF THE BEST GAMES ARE THE ONES THAT DRAW ZERO-ZERO. SO COME Sepp Blatter THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY BEFORE YOU SAY IT. FOOTBALL IS FINE, THE WORLD CUP IS THE BEST, AND I THINK I’M THE BIGGEST FOOTBALL FAN EVER AND I LOVE EVERY SECOND OF THE WORLD CUP, SO TAKE THAT Sepp Blatter, FIFA SHOULD FIRE YOU FOR SAYING THAT, LOL. NO, REALLY THEY SHOULD.

I agree that an intense 0-0 match can be a delicious dish. I actually think the Sweden vs T&T match was one of the most entertaining ones of the first round.
Now, having said that, I do miss those all out 4-2, 4-3 scores that were common place in olden times. Mexico 1970 anyone??? :)

I think the biggest problem is the defensive minded formations that every one uses now a days. I guess they are a result of the “total football” revolution but everybody and their aunt seems to be playing a 4-5-1 nowadays, hoping to score an early goal and then defend it like crazy. I wonder if any coach will ever again have the guts to come out with a 4-2-4 formation and adopt the “let them score one, we’ll score two” philosophy.

Perhaps another tweak to the offside rule will improve things – make the player onside as long as some part of his body is in line with the last defender – even if it is just the heel of his boot. That change would greatly simplify the linesman’s job – he will have to see clear daylight between the players before raising his flag – and get rid of 95% of the controversial calls, but I think the endemic reason is mainly associated with coaches that are afraid to take any risks.

Oh, and add to that the infuriating increased enphasis some attacking players have on diving. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that they are sacrificing what could have been an excellent goal scoring opportunity just for the sake of impressing the ref and maybe getting a penalty or a card for the defender. In this cup, I have counted at least 20 clear chances that were wasted by the attacking player just because they opted for flopping like a salmon out of water, intead of making the little extra effort and staying on their feet.

Futahaguro, as sexy as your recommendation sounds, I’d hate the idea of the players sliding into the goal instead of the ball. What outfit would you recommend for the goal?

does anyone here feel that over the years the players have lost ball skills and the sheer magic touches of a Pele or a Maradona or a Cryuff? To me that seems to be the most glaring aspect of football over the years. I mean,years from now, we really won’t be gushing about Beckham or Figo or Ronaldo or Pirlo, will we? They all seem as mortal as the next man in line at times. Much more than they look like heroes, i ought to say.

Players everywhere are getting more physical, even Brazil or Argentina. More crosses than dribbling across the centre of tghe field and fooling defenders left and right. Will we ever see another vintage goal like Maradona’s 86 strike against England?

I think its this aspect of the game that’s central to the riddle of why there are less goals nowadays, not only in the WCs but even in club football.

I think with the coach becoming wiser(are they?) and getting more technologies into the training…goal scoring has become a tough affair…n as the match become mmore important..like World Cup..they are more concerned with defending and sitting back for a mistake from the opponent…most team these days are relyin on 4-5-1..n the days of revolutionary..4-2-4 r gone except for Brazil..I think a different version of soccer shuld be lauched .It would be like a counter part to ONE DAY INTRNATNLS n Cricket..let there be 7-8 players each with saller grounds…n more subs

The thing of carefull note is that there were many more goals in the group phase when a draw wasn’t enough and the teams who came to win WON.
France had this same lineup but couldn’t win a game because the opposing team would settle for a draw(Swiss & Kore) and they almost went out because of this. Italy also played with 2 strikers then, so did England, Spain Brazil, even Ukraine (Veronin, Rebrov). Portugal never played well (penalty against mexico & Booed against Angola).
In the knockout rounds the 1 strikers came out and the tendency was on counterattack. That the reason for Brazil’s demise (luck too in Roberto Carlos had no moment of stupidity it would have been penalties) and Argentina too (Requelme for Cambiasso allowed Germany to move up the pitch, and Messi should have come on for Crespo).
These teams new if it came to 1-1 or 0-0 they still had penalties as long as they weren’t behind. That’s why we have had so many extra-time matchs. Case in Point Italy only added another striker in extra time, Portugal never really did, Simao is a winger and Postiga isn’t a center-forward and needs to play-off someone like Pauleta. England was a complete joke.

As for the yellow cards FIFA made a point that it was to minimize injuries – It worked! I remember only one player having to go off because of a “bad tackle” – Cristiano Ronaldo diver extraordineer. Marco Van Basten, German great Sammer and so many times Ronaldo have been often cut down by these takles. Now players dive more than they get kicked.
Yes some yellow cards were unwarranted but for all the sliding tackles from behind, tugging of jerseys and elbows yes they are warranted. If anyone saw Totti’s injury this year you will remember the player did the exact same tackle from behind moments before and didn’t get carded one the second occasion when he broke his ankle he didn’t get carded either. If he was in this world cup he would have gotten a yellow card the first time = no second tackle = no broken ankle.
Tackles from behind are used by defenders to make up for bad positioning and desperation and rarely get the ball. Ask yourself this: how many Italian defenders have missed games for 2 yellow cards? There is a reason why they are known as the best defenders in the world not one has been so out of position in this entire tounament. The players who get the yellow cards are simply naive and not up scratch and probably couldn’t cut it on the Italian team (Materazzi is second choice for club & country – straight red, De Rossi is a moron like Rooney – straight red)
I have an idea though, if the sending off of a player kills the game don’t send him off – give the opposing team a penalty! keep the player on kick him out the next match and if he gets a red or yellow card again – another penalty! Then you might see coaches take agitated players off so they don’t give the game away. The last defender would not Kick down an attacker that would allow them to score anyway! Let me know what you think, I think something similar is done in basketball

The solution is simple. Goalies have gotten bigger, so make the goal bigger. Presto, more goals.

Chris, I agree with your points 1) and 3). The goalie needs the gloves in case someone steps on his hands.. ouch.. my thought at least. 2 refs is good, but your best point is numero uno. that is a great idea.

How about two goals for each team. If you miss one, you might get the other..

Please!! a penalty box?!, more referees?!
Football has been spectacular many times without all that North American sports rules. Don’t try to change it. Football is football, if you want to go and invent another sport then go on. We have seen brilliant games in this WC and we have seen bad ones too, but that’s just football, it can’t be perfect otherwise it wouldnt be fun anymore.
I do believe that defensive soccer has become popular overcthe past years, Greece won the Europe’s Cup! a great showing of discipline and defence was all they needed, but it makes the game a bit less fun to wacth sometimes.
In the end we still live and our hearts still beat for this sport and I think the sport goes trhough many tactical changes and maybe someday we will go back to the old 3-3-4 or more offensive styles that existed in the early stages of this sport. Football is football! leave it be!

If Blatter is of the opinion that “there aren’t enough goals – and when there are too few goals, the public isn’t very enthusiastic….the essence of the game is goals”, then this can be solved in a stroke of the pen. Get rid of the offside rule. It will open the game up to a level never realised, more goals, faster play and extreme defensive play will be obselete because the quick breakway can be launched with no fear of offside.

My measure would be a lot simpler without changing the ruloes, dimensions etc. : make 0-0 draws worth zero points. SCore draws 1 point. This should apply to all competitions.
This would make coaches chase at least one goal per game, increase the number of attacking players in every squad and competition. It would reward the attacking minded African teams, penalise the defensive ones and change the culture of football.
I cannot argue with the loosening of the offside rule to amke it wasier for officials, or the use of technology. But if you don’t want to tamper with rules, just change competition point scale.
And anyone who believes 0-0 draws are exciting… there is little I can say to change your outdated minds. Yes, T&T v Sweden was great, but how mnay of those are there compared to boring 0-0 draws. Here in Oz, we need to attract fans from other codes and 0-0 draws do not do this.

The low score soccer game definitely need to change. How many times have we seen the scores being 0-0, or 1-1, and had to rely on penalty kick to decide the winner. For those who claim that score isn’t important, I have to ask, “why are we playing a competitive game? May be we ought to do ballet with the ball instead if we’re only interested in the skill and technique !”

My suggestion to improve the game:
1. Offside rule should only apply when the offensive player runs into the penalty area.

2. Make it difficult for defensive players under attack to just kick the ball away by:
a. Any ball kicked by the defensive player crossing his own goaline results not a corner kick, but a free kick at the corner of the penalty area (18 yards from the goal), and all players except the goalie must stand outside of the penalty box and away from the kicking lane.
b. Any ball kicked by the defensive player crossing the sideline within 18 yards from the goaline results not a throw in, but a corner kick. For corner kicks, at most 2 offensive players and 2 defensive players(excluding the goalie) are allowed inside the penalty area.

3. All penalty resulting in a yellow card must accompanied by a free kick as in (a) above.

4. All penalty resulting in a red card must accompied by a penalty kick (12 yards from the goal).

I think we need more goals.

FIFA can make the goals bigger and/or change the rules of offside.

More goals is necessary to avoid deciding a game based on penalties, or the flip of a coin, which kills the spirit of an emotion-loaded game.

We don’t need basketball-like scores in the 100’s, but a 5-4 victory of Italy over France (or vice-versa) would have been much better than 1-1 the anti-climactic penalties resolution.

Screaming OOOOOOOAAAAALLLLL!!!! a few more times during a game is way more exciting; but too many goals would steal the emotion of the close-calls.

Scoring is the name of the game. Without goals you can’t win.

I disagree with many of the writers who support 0-0 games.

Football, or soccer as we call it (because we have to be different), has been on a steady decline since the mid-80’s. Money has entered the game on a level that is unprecidented. For coaches this has lead to fear on many fronts. Keeping your job and keeping your high priced talent happy became the order of the day. Somewhere along the way they forgot that fans generate the income and you are meant to entertain them…

That said let’s look at history. In the World Cup of the 50’s Teams like Hungary and Germany produced 26 and 25 goals in 5 and six games respectively. This year’s winner, Italy, produced just 12 goals in 7 games. This was an especially high scoring year for Italy as well. [In each of their cup victories they scored 12 goals with the exception of '38 with 11 goals (in 4 games).]

Look at how scoring averages have dropped and continue to plumet. Watch as playmakers no longer fill rosters. With Zidane leaving the game you are seeing one of the last of his kind, comparable to Platini, Maradona, Cruyff, Pele and Puskas. Look at all the modern teams and what history has told us is a playmaker is missing. Captains like Beckham playing on the wing?

FIFA has struggled in recent years with rule changes engineered to speed play in the hopes of more goals. Even recently making changes to the offsides rule with even no longer being off. Changing the ball is another wild goose chase. The new ball only seemed to hurt scoring.

All of this while the solution that eludes them is right in front of their eyes, but difficult for them to control.

The problem is coaching, pure and simple. There are no coaches that play with an offensive mindset. The closest we came in this Cup was Klinsmann who when he made defensive decisions saw bad results. Even van Basten who I would have expected more from ran his forwards into the ground chasing balls played into 2 and 3 defenders. And lastly, Arena who when he needed an all or nothing win chose to start with 1 forward against Ghana.

The “modern” coach plays with 1 or 2 forwards, 4 or 5 midfielders and 4 or 5 defenders. What a ludicrous system if you want to score goals. How can you run 1 or even 2 forwards against 4 or 5 defenders. Defenses make mistakes when they are tired. How will 1 man tire out 4.

Another simple concept is that the ball tends to be where players are. If you have all your players in the defensive 2/3 of the field, where do you think the ball will be.

On a corner kick why are there 20 players in the box? If a forward goes back to defend a corner he brings another attacker with him.

Well, I could go on and on, but I have a suggestion for FIFA. All of these coaches must obtain licenses through this governing body. Thus they can exert some influence. Here are my suggestions:

1- Start to use history to teach coaches about attacking offensive soccer. Plant the seeds now so that they can take root in a new generation. No license without this lesson.

2- Avoid changing the rules of the game. Involving referees as much as they have is choking the game. Players are becoming soap actors. Leave the rules alone, except for possibly adding 4th official replay to strike fear into player/faker hearts.

3- Get the money out of the looker room. The situation that companies like Nike created for Brazilians should be the writing on the wall.

4- Publicly criticize coaching when it is to defensive. The public will hear it and so will the coaches.

5- Launch promotional campaigns directed at todays youth. Help to create playmakers and goal scorers. Don’t forget this generation of players watched the 1990 World Cup when they were 8,9 and 10. That was the lowest scoring cup ever (followed by this one). Kids are sponges, teach them.

Make these simple changes and a movement towards better football will begin. Playmakers will come back and entertaining play will come back on the field instead of in the commercials.

Goals will be scored…

Re: John Thelian’s comments
“without goals you can’t win”
What about Germany v Argentina? You can win on a PSO.

“The problem is coaching, pure and simple. There are no coaches that play with an offensive mindset”
Most coaches used to. But the game has changed so much in recent years that any coach playing to the old styles would be be sending out his team to almost certain defeat at the top levels of football.

Its futile to blame coaches and players for negative play. Their job is to get results. Even 1-0 and 0-0 results will do.

Ultimately its down to FIFA and its rule making arm IFAB to adjust the rules to stem the falling goal rates worldwide. Possible remedies are 1) bigger goals. 2) changes to the offside rule eg no offside from a free kick. There is already no offside from a throw -in 3) Use of video evidence to crack down on the cheats. 4) 10 minutes off the field with every yellow card. 5) Automatic yellow cards for certain offences such as shirt pulling.

I should have said Portugal v England above. Portugal won without scoring a goal. I’m not counting PSOs.

Germany v Argentina finished 1-1

the purists out there love to say ‘football is good as it is’ so don’t change it. The problem with this argument is that football is a continually evolving entity, in particular changes in the laws occur routinely (usually to encourage attacking or non-dangerous play) while players fitness and proffessionalism have improved continuously over the last 50 years. People say ‘more goals doesn’t mean a better game’ but they ignore that the low number of goals scored is a result of very few serious attempts on goal.

Why so few quality goal chances in games? Basically defending is now too easy when the defence has time to set itself. The best way to break down a defence is from broken play when players are out of position (beating a man or a great pass is less effective these days). As a result the optimal way to play the game is either to do a greece: defend and score from set pieces, or do an Italy: defend and score on the break.

Changes to the goal size or offside rule on freekicks won’t change how easy it is to defend generally and so won’t lead to more of the kind of goals that people want to see. Removing the offside rule might work, however might lead to just boring long ball play. Reducing (or increasing) the number of players on the field might work or might not, only a trial would tell.

Anyhow, my point is that 1) there is a problem, 2) the problem to solve is that defending is too easy, simply trying to get more goals won’t necessarily lead to good football.

“Changes to the goal size or offside rule on freekicks won’t change how easy it is to defend generally”

Why not? How do you know this? The truth is that no-one knows for sure what will work and what won’t. I agree with FIFA/IFAB that we should be very cautious about changing the rules. However there’ve been lot good suggestions, made since the borefest that was Italia90, for rule improvements that could well be trialled out in one or two of the better semi -pro leagues around the World.

The least that FIFA /IFAB should do, is sanction a few experiments. Let’s find out what works, and what doesn’t.

If you think this WC was lacking in goals, remember that the scoring rate in the KO stages of the 2005/2006 European Champions League was a a magnificant 1.3 per game.